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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  May 6, 2020 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT

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[ applause ] [sirens] >> thanks to them. thank you for being with us. don't go anywhere. "all in with chris hayes" is up next. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. we got a lot to get to on our show tonight including coming up, we have stacy adrabrams we' be talking to. a lot of people, including me, noted, as the white house urges states to reopen there is no plan to stop, suppress or mi minimize the spread of the coronavirus. that's mostly true. it's not completely true. i was thinking about this today. there actually is a plan. it just doesn't involve you or me. we see the plan on full display
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in the president's own daily schedule where you might notice he's carrying out his fairly normal are you teen. he does his briefings but not as much and meets people in the oval office. he's flown across the country. he visited a mask factory in arizona where he did not wear a mask and they played live and let die in the background. it's a rough, if adjusted version of normalcy for president donald trump and also vice president mike pence. they both appear to be carrying on with roughly their normal lives and crucially duties more or less. the reason they could do all this is because they're being tested all the time. "the new york times" reports president trump and vice president mike pence are tested frequently. aids who come into close contact with them are tested weekly and the list of people that need to be tested daily keeps expanding. when mike pence was asked why he did not wear the required mask to visit the mayo clinic last week, his response was that he's tested for the coronavirus on a regular basis and everyone who is around me is tested for the
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coronavirus. ha. would you look at that? the trump administration has figured out a way, they've solved the problem, how to bring normalcy to the daily lives of president trump and vice president pennsylvaniamidst of this crisis. they have a testing regime to constantly make sure things are safe. the trump administration actually does have a plan they are implementing in front of us, they are just applying it for two people. they implemented this across the country as other countries have, we would feel much more comfortable about going back to work or school, movie theaters maybe, restaurants. i mean, if they were testing robustly and tracing contacts, that's also something they will do in the white house, everyone could have some confidence that we're safe, some rough semblance of normal. it wouldn't be the same as before and wouldn't be for the president who can't go to big
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rallies. if everyone is being tested all the time and everyone's contacts are being traced, we would know immediately if someone contracted the virus and they could go into isolation. of course, that's not the case. that's not what is happening. the white house is taking a kind of selfish approach. an increasingly actually, not just the white house and trump, the republican party or conservative line on this, the approach to all this is increasingly becoming this. we will protect ourselves and our interests while you guys, you working folks, you get out there and you weather the virus. here is a snapshot kind of sums that up pointed out to me yesterday on twitter of the wisconsin state supreme court that's them hearing arguments yesterday challenging the stay-at-home orders of the democratic governor in that state and as you can see in that screen shot, they're all remote. they're all responsibly practicing physical distancing. they're not lined up in a meat packing plant but the republican justices of that supreme court
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actually question the legality of the stay-at-home orders as they themselves work from home remotely and safely. one justice referred to the state's stay-at-home order as the very definition of tyranny and the concern of chief justice blamed an outbreak in one county on people working in a meat packing plant. >> kacases in brown county in t weeks surge over tenfold from 60 to 800. that's two weeks that would be required for emergency rule making. so, you know -- >> due to the meat packing, though, that's where the brown county got the flair. it wasn't just the regular folks in brown county. >> did you hear what she said? oh, no, no, no, all the coronavirus cases were just the meatpackers, not the regular folks. so why workers of the meat packing plant are not regular folks to her? no, no, they're just the meatpackers. they have to go pack meat and get sick. that's not the regular folks.
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that's not you or me on this zoom hearing safely. republican officials, many of them, many of them are acting responsibly, we should be very clear here, many are approaching the virus like the screen shot in that remote hearing and they'll tell you instead of being locked down, you need to go back to work. again, we know what it will look like out in the world because we've seen it in places that stay open. two businesses in utah told their staffs ignore coronavirus guidelines and they required workers who tested positive to report to work and you will never guess what happened. 68 people across those two businesses tested positive leading one to temporarily shut down. if you just keep going about business as usual with the virus out there and do not come up with really sophisticated and dramatic regimes of testing, people will get sick. it's that simple. and that is the reason why senate republican leader mitch
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mcconnell said the hill he will die on in the next rescue bill is liability protection for employers to make sure if you get sick after you go back to work, you can't sue the boss. so when you go back to work, mitch mcconnell has a plan for your boss but not for you. just yesterday "the new york times" reported the task force run by the president's son-in-law prioritized tips from political allies and associates of president trump tracked on a spread sheet called vip update. how proverse is that? vip update. the president of the united states, the white house making sure that all the connected people got personal protective equipment for the hospitals that they were close to. like they're running a mar-a-lago golf tournament. in one case, jeanine pirro contacted everyone until 100,000
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masks were sent to a hospital she favored. today the new white house press secretary was asked by nbc's peter alexander why everyone is not getting tested like the president. >> why shouldn't all americans who go back to work be able to get a test before they do to feel comfortable in their own work environment to be interacting with other individuals? >> let's dismiss a myth about tests right now. if we tested every single american in this country at this moment, we'd have to retest them an hour later and an hour later after that because at any moment you could theoretically contract this virus. the notion that everyone needs to be tested is just simply nonsensical. >> simply nonsensical. apply that to the white house. the plan coming into focus from the president and his allies is that we will protect ourselves and we'll protect our interests and you guys out there, you americans, you are and this is the president's words, you're
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warriors. you'll be thrown against the on slot of the virus. going out of their way to protech themselves and they will send you out so you can't sue your employer when you get sick. joining me now from more on the white house's plan or lack thereof, senator tammy duckworth of illinois. for the people of illinois, what do you tell them about what the federal government that you're part of and what the white house, administration and congress, the federal government's plan is for the people that you represent in the state of illinois to make sure there is a safe way for them to start to come out of lockdown? >> well, chris, what i tell them is don't trust a trump administration. listen to governors and his plan for state and the illinois department of public health and the plan the governor put forward. he's put forward a methodical plan. the first four steps of the plan is social distancindistancing,
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macmac masks and more testing and we need to do contact tracing. don't trust what the trump administration says because they don't have your best interest at heart. >> one thing that worries me about the sort of return to work reopening conversation and again, i say this as someone who very much, like a lot of people, wants to restore some normalcy, does not think it's feasible or advied advisable to keep people down for months more but this idea of it being the kind of liability and risk being pushed on to workers. you have unemployed workers saying if you don't go back to work you're quitting. you can't get unemployment benefits. bosses telling people knot to wear masks in their workplace. iowa tells workers to return to their jobs or lose your unemployment benefits. do you think we're looking out for workers enough in the
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conceptionization of how this is going to happen? >> democrats are trying hard to lockout for workers and pushing hard. i myself introduced legislation to provide osha protections for all front line workers and not just the hero doctors and nurses and people in our health care system but also the heroic grocery store cashiers and the janitors and everybody else. i also helped co-introduce information for hazard pay. i used to get hazard pay in the army for flying a helicopter. out there cleaning the hospital as a janitor, you should get hazard pay, as well. are republicans looking out for these folks? no. let me go back to what they said about the meat packing plant, those people are not normal people. yet, those people don't have an option. they have to go to work or they lose their unemployment insurance and if they are afraid for their lives, they don't have a choice. that's unamerican we would do
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that to one another and also by the way, many people who work in the meat packing plants are either from the black or the brown communities in this country. there is a lot of latin x folks who work in many of these factories and meat packing plants and have some of the highest rates of positive testing for covid-19 as well as african americans suffering at far higher percentages than the rest of the population as a whole. >> final question for you, a piece of news today i think got a little buried but understandably, striking. the press secretary at one point referred to them as a health care president. we have more than 70,000 americans dead and north of 1 million cases. today was the last day that the department of justice, the president trump administration's department of justice could have changed the position on a lawsuit to destroy, rip up, reduce to rubble all 2200 pages of the affordable care act,
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current health care provisioning in the united states of america and they did not. they want to urge the supreme court to tear it up is in court to do it. what do you think about that? >> well, unfortunately, i think it's consistent. he's been right there to try to rip away health instruments from millions of hard working americans. they want to take away the protections for preexisting conditions. they want to put you back in the bad old days where over 50% of bankruptcies in this country were from medical bills. they want to take health care away from the americans and in fact, instead of ripping up the aca, they should be opening up exchanges on an emergency basis so more people can sign up. illinois requested the exchange be opened up so we can have people registered to get health insurance coverage. that's common sense in a pandemic but they won't allow us to do that and trying to rip up the entire system so we're all
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going to be at the mercy of insurance companies and i would rather not let that happen. >> senator tammy duckworth you see there is back in our nation's capitol. senate has convened this week. thank you so much for taking a little time with us tonight. >> thanks for having me on. >> for more on the testing protocols for the president but not everyone else, i'm joined by an emergency room physician at boston's hospital and i want to be fair here, doctor, to the press secretary. i think it's actually accurate to say the incredibly robust testing regime applied to the president of the united states is probably not scaleable for the entirety of the american people but the key insight which is that if you're testing regularly and tracing contacts, you could have a lot more security. safety does seem to meet applicable and scaleable. what do you think? >> that seems correct. when people look at the white house or any leaders, they are looking for leadership and that.
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they would like to have the same applied to them. the fact that we can't have universal testing at this time is an unforced error and it's unfortunate. the fact they are testing themselves tells me they believe that testing is important. that's good they believe that and i think the rest of america probably notices that and wants the same for themselves. >> it also strikes me that there's some sort of medium between these, right? so you're not going to do a testing regime like the one you have for the president of the united states for everyone but there are certain places that we just know are extremely vulnerable, right? those are detention facilities, prisons, jails, i.c.e. did tension -- facilities, psychiatric hospitals, meat packing plants, right? we've seen time and time again these places. is there a universe in which we applied sort of robust testing regime at least to those places? >> what you'd like to see is a
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plan and a plan that has some basis. it could be that you want to spend a lot of your tests in nursing homes because that's where so many of our deaths have happened here in massachusetts. for example, 60% of our deaths come from the less than 1% of the population from nursing homes. that's a staggering statistic. we need to be testing those people all the time and could be that we need to do the opposite and think the other way like we need to be testing people with no symptoms at all because these are the people who go to work and could become spreaders. what we want to do is have our leaders ocutline a very data driven outline. it is all over the place and not enough. >> i'm curious, as an emergency room physician yourself, massachusetts has had a fairly bad outbreak, not one of the worst, not one of the top three worst in the country but a fairly significant outbreak. there is significant stress on your hospital system. as you watched this debate play out, driven by the president and driven by certain sort of fairly narrow concerted interests about
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opening up, what your reaction is based on the experience you've had as an actual provider yourself? >> my general impression is people who aren't in it, on the ground don't get it. they don't get how real this is. many americans don't know of anyone that died of this yet and it would take a staggering number of americans to die before the american person knows that. they don't connect how real it is. right now we're having an unplus de -- unprecedented number of deaths. literally the number of deaths. we know how many people die every day in this country and very stable for years and years and we've been looking at this for a century. it's off the charts. that means we're nowhere near normal and people say we turned the corner but to me you look at the data and there are states where the numbers are off the charts from all causes. we know it covid. if we count them up, it's
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unbelievable. >> what i'm hearing is that we talked about this, the mortality data there is reporting the president thinks we're over counting deaths and may start making that case in public. what you're saying is we're under counting it and if you look at the excess mortality, you compare that to this conversation of opening up like in states like georgia and texas you can see on the chart just how dangerous this thing is. >> correct. right now we are probably under counting covid deaths. quite frankly, there could be a time later down the road we over count them. i had a relative in her 90s who died with coronavirus last week and it's hard for me, distant relative, it hard to know if she died because of coronavirus or with coronavirus or old age or whatever, but six months from now if we don't have a lot of excess deaths, i could understand that point that you don't know who but right now the numbers aren't even close. >> yeah, dr. jeremy foust, thank
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you for joining me. >> thank you. fresh off mishandling the search for medical supplies, the president's son-in-law is handed another project. getting another vaccine. do you feel confident? you don't want to miss that story. it's coming up next. o miss that story. it's coming up next. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis.
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just about every day brings a new story seems to follow in the wake of jared kushner.
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he keeps being given more to do. the boy wonder has been tasked with streamlining the effort to get a coronavirus vaccine by the end of the year the white house is calling operation warped speed. the latest in a long series of tasks the president has given to his son-in-law despite an utter lack of qualifications for said tasks. most recently jared kushner led a hastily thrown together task force made up of young volunteers charged with procuring much needed personal protective equipment to help fight the virus. it did not g welo well. the president promising ventilators and asking for someone to call him urgently, his volunteers pass along that random duet's information and here to tell us what happened next, i'm joined by political investigative reporter at the "new york times" co-author along with a number of his colleagues, a great piece in the "new york times" entitled how kushner's volunteer force led a fumbling hunt for medical supplies and nick, let's start with that
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story. someone in the president's mention saying i got the hookup on n-95 masks, this somehow is passed along via the kushner cask force and what happens then? >> well, basically what happened is the volunteers who are young and inexperienced mostly from private equity analysis took this person's information and passed it up to hhs which then passed it on to new york state as a lead for ventilators and new york state gave the guy a contract for $69 million on the assumption the guy had been vetted by the white house team, which turned out not to be true and the state is trying to get that money back. >> has the individual who tweeted at the president and got a $69 million contract delivered any ventilators? >> zero. he's one of the people that thought he could do something big and had the opportunity and
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expertise and failed. we're seeing so much of that. there is a bold market in scrams or people that concern themself the into this hunt for ppe and ventilators and other things and failing because they haven't actually got the contacts. >> yeah, so tell me -- okay. let's back up to what was this task force? why was jared kushner running it? who was in it? what was it supposed to do? >> volunteers in a task force in the white house task force. it's very complicated, hard to explain the structure of it. these kids, their job was to sort through a mountain of incoming leads from people who said hey, i can selfl fema some gowns or gloves or masks. the problem is fema was getting such a late start that traditional supplies had run dry and usual suppliers couldn't supply for the demand so they had no choice but to sift through the offers of ppe. that task failed to a group of a
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dozen kids who had never done this before. >> i mean, just to be clear, like there are people at the gsa at the department of defense particularly at fema and other places throughout the government that have procurement expertise and la joyogistics expertise. this is not a body of knowledge absent the american government but it wasn't those people being marshalled here. it was like people that the president's son-in-law knew? >> it's a case study of a certain kind of trump governance, chris, where there is a difference to private industry and experience public servants and a sense people in your phone book are the best people to rely on. in this case, these were volunteers and the idea is their experience in sourcing deals could be applied to sourcing procurement but they hadn't had any expertise in the procedures or in the substance of it and
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yeah, there are questions around fema, look, there are people around dhs and the pentagon who have this experience and typically in a crisis iffy fem needed more people, it grabs bodies from there, not wall street. >> there is part i found profoundly troubling. the vip update spread sheet. many volunteers were told to prioritize tips from political allies and associates to president trump tracked on a spread sheet called vip update. >> imagine, chris, there are hundreds of tips coming from all over the place from over the transit into fema and congress and coming from friends and well wishers of the president and white house and what these volunteers did was and what happened was a person supervising them who is a former assistance to ivanka trump had them track the leads coming from
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friends of the white house, friends of the president and expedite them and the problem there is there wasn't any reason to think that those leads were any better than the other leads -- >> no. >> but they got the most attention first. >> final question here i think is about just like the broader governance structure here. you got a situation in which jared kushner, you know, is someone who came into a family business that was his parents', father's family business, not dissimilar from president trump and george w. bush. all three of them are just the boss' son and that's why they have the power they have. now he is being tacked with the vaccine like why -- it seems like we're going to keep doing these. >> it seems that way. in fact, there is at least one volunteer from the procurement test i believe is now working on the vaccine task force. look, the idea here is that i
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can fix it. i alone can fix it. i think it's well meaning. it's a little over co-fa dent a -- confident, is it necessary for the white house to micro manage these processes or simply look from a far and nudge when needed. i'm not sure what the answer is. >> all right. thanks for being with me tonight. ahead, how long did the virus go undetected in the u.s.? we know about when coronavirus began spreading outside of china with the great laurie garrett next. great laurie garrett next t...you go. i was just going to say on slide 7, talking about bundling and saving...umm... jamie, you're cutting out. sorry i'm late! hey, whoever's doing that, can you go on mute? oh, my bad! i was just saying there's a typo on slide 7. bundle home & auto for big discosnouts. i think that's supposed to say discounts. you sure about that? hey, can you guys see me?
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especially in times like these, strong public schools make a better california for all of us. trying to find out, how long was it moving around? we got an interesting data point from santa clara california last week or maybe before that where they did an autopsy and found out that two people who died back in early and mid february were actually infected with the
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coronavirus. that's weeks before what we originally thought was the first u.s. fatality. "miami herald" reporting the virus was likely already spreading through florida in january. we got this new bit of information from france intri e intrigui intriguing. a doctor went back and tested a swab from a patient who had pneumonia in december, turns out that patient had the coronavirus which is considerably earlier than we thought the virus got here. joining me now someone who has been traging acking and reporti this, author of "the coming plague" politzer prize winner laurie garrett. let's start with the we implications about data about the timeline here, the fact it was in france in december. the fact it was in the u.s. earlier than we thought. what do you make of that? >> well, first we have a scientific caveat, sorry to have to do this. >> please. >> the test that's used is pcr
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and it is contamination prone. with the possibility that some of these contaminations not genuine infections, so we've covered ourselves on that but if they all hold up or a fair percentage of them hold up, what it shows us is something that comes as no surprise to most of us but is meaning that this had actually desimilar disseminated realized there was an outbreak in wuhan. it is quite likely this virus has been around at a low level for a long time. that certainly turned out to be the case with hiv which we didn't know about until may of 1981, but that we now can see retrospectively had been in low levels of infection throughout the 20th century in parts of africa. it may be this is not as new as we thought it was. >> what is the implication? one of the big questions right
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now is about sort of they're connected and connect to the timeline. if i can state it this way, how many people have had the virus, right? how chantransmissible and a bunf people had it that we don't realize because of testing and asymptomatic transmission so maybe it won't be -- it's not as bad as we thought and maybe we're closer to some end of this than we thought. i wonder what you make of the current status of that conversation? >> well, it's a conversation that's utter ly speculative. as it turns out there may have been cases earlier in parts of europe perhaps and parts of asia and north america. we don't really know yet. it also may turn out there has been a burden of death we didn't know about. so from the very beginning, way back in january, i've been saying we need to do rest d tr
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retrospective forensic work to find people that had undiagnosed cause pneumonias in the united states and in intensive care units in 2019. we need to better understand have we been missing this virus for a long time? you know, chris, we have this phrase unknown eteology i've been writing in medical charts since i was a check in a boston hospital at the age of 16. it's the case that a lot of pneumonia and encephalitis and things that lead to death, we don't know what caused it. was it a virus? if it was, which one? we always had a large mystery box looming over a substantial burden of death in the united states and it could well turn
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out this particular coronavirus has been around longer than we thought. what's obviously important to remember however, is that something has made it explode at this time. so whether it's been around like hiv for decades or it's been around for a few weeks longer than we thought, something still caused this explosive event first in wuhan and now in many places around the world. this may coincide with a separate paper that came out today it has not yet been fully peer reviewed. it quite controversial but comes out of one of the most rememberable laboratories in the entire world, the lose alamos laboratory geno bank studying every single known form of hiv since the 1980s, and now is applying the similar methodology
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to track the various forms of this coronavirus found in patients all over the world and they think they see that there was a particular dominant form that was in china and it's now been completely eclipsed by a totally different form that is dominating here in north america and in western europe. whether this explains certain kinds of behavior and passage, transmission, not clear yet. they think it may mean that this new form, newer form of the virus is causing a higher viral load in the patients meaning they have more virus to spread to others. >> so final question for you is about a quote you gave in a column in the "new york times" which stuck with me. i ask kathleen about it last night on this program we talked about the bizarre absence of the cdc, which say world renounced institution in many ways and you
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said i've heard from every cdc in the world and they say normally the first call is to atlanta but we ain't hearing back. there is nothing going on down there. they gutted that place. what is your understanding of what has happened to the cdc? >> this is a tragedy. every major epidemic that we've faced in the united states in my lifetime has been run by the cdc. and we've -- the cdc played that role for a lot of international outbreaks. you know, i've been in the command center and seen how it works. it's not at all uncommon to have on the command board, nebraska, illinois and then some country overseas and you have huge numbers of experts keeping track of what's going on all over the world taking phone calls from every corner of the planet asking for guidance and advice. in 2014 when ebola was sweeping through west africa, the cdc
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played an absolutely pivotal role advising every country in the world on how to respond, not just how we should respond inside the united states. so now here we have the biggest epidemic this country has faced, you know, in the modern era and the cdc is radio silent. we've had instead of daily briefings every single day, which we were accustomed to for example when ebola was spread in west africa, we're hearing nada, nothing. when you call the cdc, there's an awkwardness clearly the moral situation inside the cdc is quite difficult right now. i mean, you have some of the best professionals on the planet, people who have been in the middle of epidemics all over the world and they got their mouths zipped shut. they can't take phone calls and interact with most of us on the
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outside and this is real travesty. it's a lose for america and the whole world. where is the cdc? >> yeah, it's a really important question. laurie garrett, i always learn so much from talking to you. >> thank you, chris. still ahead, stacy abrams is here to talk about what is happening in georgia since it started reopening and the discussions about the biden campaign potentially tapping her for v.p., much, much more stick around she joins me ahead. much, around she joins me ahead. be pg for this for a long time. they will, but with accident forgiveness allstate won't raise your rates just because of an accident, even if it's your fault. cut! sonny. was that good? line! the desert never lies. isn't that what i said? no you were talking about allstate and insurance. i just... when i... let's try again. everybody back to one. accident forgiveness from allstate. click or call for a quote today.
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tide cleaners is offeringe free laundry services you. to the family of frontline responders. visit hope.tidecleaners.com to learn more. it's absurd we're having a hearing on a judge for a vacancy that's not open until september. between now and september if projections are right, we'll lose thousands if not tens of thousands of americans. death and life. >> republican senate leader
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mitch mcconnell's priorities are clear. tax cuts for rich people and judges, judges, judges. he's not letting a global pandemic or physical distancing or deaths of tens of thousands of americans stop his urgent need to come up with more judges. as we passed 70,000 coronavirus deaths in this country and 22 million americans unemployed. mitch mcconnell called back the senate to work on nominees including an appeal let court nominee. someone thatt enear and dear to heart. as they were passing a bill to fight the exploding pandemic, mitch mcconnell decided to send the senate home to fly back to kentucky with his buddy brett kavanaugh to attend a swearing in ceremony for a young right-wing judge he managed to place on the judiciary. the man in question is justin walker and clerked for kavanaugh
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and has the backing of mcconnell and here he is fist bumping with both of them that weekend while the epidemic was exploding in america. i should tell you justin walker was deemed not qualified for district court judge but the american bar association and now just weeks later, that was his swearing in ceremony to be a district court judge, right? then the pandemic exploded and weeks later mitch mcconnell is trying to put that guy on the appellate court. mcconnell is said to improperly ask a judge to step down to fill that vacancy. the retiring judge denies that but a federal judge asked for a full investigation because no amount of human misery and wide spread illness and death and unemployment will stop mitch mcconnell from trying to jam his judges on the federal judiciary.
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one part to shield republicans from people who do not like what they are doing, one of his toughest enemies in that fight is coming up next. toughest enemies in that fight is coming up next. for people living with h-i-v, keep being you. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day
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republican georgia governor brian kemp one of the first to declare a state ready to reopen for business and less than two weeks later, the results are not good. the ceo of an business told "the wall street journal" the reopening weekend was a disaster, we had two customers
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all weekend. and although malls are open, they are mostly deserted. people are not rushing back into economic activity. the reason that's obvious is because the virus is still there. still a very present threat. and there are already signs that in some parts of georgia, things are actually accelerating, getting worse. in fact, governor kemp himself came out yesterday warning about a growing outbreak in northeast georgia, in an area synonymous with the georgia poultry industry quickly becoming one of the most affected areas. stacey abrams joins us, she heads up the southern economic advancement project, and is helping to alleviate the financial stress that so many are facing amid the pandemic. and let me start on that question, stacy, it's great to have you tonight, in terms of thinking about the sort of economic pain here, i mean, you know, when people talk about wanting to reopen, i think what they're saying is that this is
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people that people are unplome ied, they can't make money, can't make rent and seeing food insecurity go up and how do you see cushioning that blow or dealing with that problem as we fight the virus? >> i think it is a legitimate concern but it has to be prioritized, actually having an economy, and having consumers to participate. the south has one of the highest unemployment rates, one of the lowest insurance rates and we see some of the highest death rates and infection rates. we do not have the public health infrastructure to reopen georgia or even the owner states but we're also seeing the most vulnerable population being forced back into production. those poultry workers are not workers who are, they have no choice to go back to work, because of particularly president trump's actions last week and those infected don't necessarily have access to medicaid or any health care if they need to be treated.
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what do you think about the economic effects of this decision by governor kemp? the idea that you open up, and then you can get the economy going, but the early signs in your state, which is really kind of, sort of a pilot here, is that people don't rush out to go do the stuff they were doing before just because the governor said you're open for business. >> georgia is a cautionary tale to every other state that's thinking about reopening. first of all. we've seen our rates skyrocket by 40% since the announced reopening, the soft relaunch, moving into now the near full reopening. we have seen our rates of infection jump to 30,000. our death rate is around 1300. we remain one of the top states for the infection and still very low on the rate of testing. there is no correlation between reopening the state and restarting the economy, because there are no people who can take advantage of the reopening
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except for the workers forced to risk their lives and as you said easterly earlier we have a concomitant issue of food insecurity because of those already on the edge are being shoved off and no relief from the state and a 12th notion if we reopen the economy, everything will work out and that's just not true. >> i want to ask you about another story coming out of georgia, though, a national story, and a profoundly disturbing one of a shooting of an unnaturaled 25-year-old black man in your state, on february 23rd, before the pandemic had ex ploeded and a video of the shooting which we will show you part of, which surfaced yesterday, and it shows him running along a residential street, jogging, and he comes up, upon a white pickup, and one of the men is standing beside the truck, and the other is in the bed of the truck, and he runs around the truck and disappearance briefly from view,
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and there's shouting that can be heard and gunshots. neither of those two white men, the ones in the truck, gregory mcmichael, or his son travis, are arrested, and according to a police report, gregory mcmichael says he saw him running in a neighborhood and thought he looked like a suspect in a rash of break-ins and he got the gun and the older mcmichael is a local cop and formatter investigator in the d.a. office and the first two prosecutors recused themselves because of professional ties to mcmichael and a third prosecutor recommended the case it a grand jury. what do you think should be happening with this case? >> i believe that there should be immediate investigation of charges. it looks like murder. it looks like vigilantly behavior that should be charged and criminalized. and it looks like the family has been dealt a very sore-handed injustice. we have been working very quietly trying to lift the story
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up, because we wanted to be respectful of the family and recognize that there was a process moving, but the process moved too slowly, and i'm gratifi gratified that there is now national attention that is calling the state to question and forcing real investigation and true justice to be delivered to the family. >> you've been, obviously, you ran in your state, you ran a heck of a race, came narrowly short, you have been outspoken about the fact that you would like to be the vice presidential nominee on the ticket with joe biden, given how seismic the events are, the sort of class clifrms th cass clichls that we've had and the age of joe biden, i'm wondering, do you have the experience necessary in crisis management and international affairs and things like that to sort of be able to take over the job in a heartbeat if that's what's called upon?
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>> i've been getting the question on this for the last 14 months, and typically, the question comes when i appear on a show, or talk to a reporter, about the work i'm doing, about the work i'm doing to protect election, fair fight action, and fair fight 2020, and the work that i'm doing to ensure counting of the census and delivering 40,000 pounds of food for food banks throughout georgia, florida and alabama that will serve 800,000 meals, because with the food insecurity, we know it is rampant in that region of the state, those three states, i'm do doing the work of service and i'm doing the work of trying to meet the needs that we have on a national level. when i get the question though, i answer that, and that is i think mischaracterized as auditioning or pitching and i'm trying to be as straightforward and direct and i'm a daughter of
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pastors who taught me to honest and a woman of color, who often see, and i want young women to have me answer questions forth rightly. this is a question of competence and vice president joe biden will pick the person who best suits him, and he has an extraordinary team around him and he knows the job and does what he needs to do to lead and i won't be able to decide what questions i get from fantastic journalists like yourself and others and my only opportunity is to be as forth right as i can and that i that is to say yes, i'm qualified and ready. >> final question, about mail-in voegt, how important is that we have mail-in voting in place this fall for this election? >> it is essential. there will be no democracy without it. we cannot move tens of millions of people through lines with, we cannot move tens of millions of
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people through lines without having the ability to relieve the stress through mail-in voting. we have the capacity. we need the funding. and the cares package, the next one passed needs to include those dollars. >> all right. stacey abrams, it is always great to get a chance to talk to you. thank you for making time tonight. >> thank you for having me. that is "all in" for this evening. the rachel maddow show starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris. thanks very much, my friend. much appreciated. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. happy to have you with us tonight. on april 10th, three and a half weeks ago, vice president mike pence spoke at the white house, about a worrying new situation that was emerging in northeastern colorado, a town called greeley, colorado, which is up sort of near ft. collins. >> i spoke today to the governor of colorado, we've been in contact with senator corey
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gardner, about an